Well done, Chook! They may not use that conversation against you. But here's what they might do. Now that they know you are apostate, they may use another two witnesses to bait you into making apostate statements and then use those conversations as a basis to DF you. Or maybe they'll start a rumor in the congs that you are an apostate and so get you to be unofficially DF'd and shunned without officially acting against you.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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45
CO visits me today
by Chook ini'm at home and hear knock on door , i sneak and look i see two men and recognise one voice and go back into lonunge and ask wife ( who is inactive believer) does she want to speak to elders ,she says no ,then literally 3 minutes has pasted another knock the 3 minutes seemed like an eternity.
so brave heart me think fuck it i'll answer ,i invite them in for coffee, i recognise one older man he is a unique elder who i genuinely was fond of when i was in his name is andrew ,the other guy i didn't recognise we will call harry ( not real name australia doesn't have that many cos with his same name).
so i think to myself i will tread lightly and not cause to much of a fuss for the wife's sake, but my personality is very the opposite of treading lightly ,as you read my threads you will realise i'm not timid.
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I don't think I will be able to escape the JWs ...
by nevaagain ini know i will get a lot of backslash on this forum for saying this, but as it looks like, i won't ever be able to escape the jws.
i have been a born in, third generation jw and awoken in one way or another (i joined this forum 15 years ago) for a very long time.
but i have adapted to the jw lifestyle to a point where it does not bother me anymore.
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Island Man
The best and only way to leave a cult is not to physically get out of the cult, but to mentally get the cult out of you. There are many physically out, DFd JWs who are still mentally in the cult and as a result, would virtually commit suicide in a medical crisis requiring blood. Better to be physically in and mentally out, than to be physically out and mentally in.
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Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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Island Man
I get the point of the OP. The JWs profess to be christian and share many of the same basic beliefs of most other christians.
Furthermore, since there are thousands of different denominations of christianity and they all have different interpretations of the bible it's pointless quibbling over whether or not they are practicing the true version of christianity since there is no way for anyone to prove whose version of christianity is the correct one.
When a person tells me they are a Muslim, do I challenge their claim based on whether they are Sunni or Shiite? No. I take them at their word. Whether or not they are living up to all the requirements of Islam is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is that they believe the Quran and believe in Mohammed.
Similarly, a person who genuinely professes to follow christ and believes in the Bible is a Christian. Whether or not they are a fully approved Christian as respects the details of their beliefs and lifestyle is irrelevant. There's really no point arguing based on the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.
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POP QUIZ: You're An Elder, And A Sister Has Suicidal Thoughts...
by pale.emperor inlets imagine you're a jehovah's witness elder.
you have zero theological training aside from what you've read in the watchtower and the currently still approved watchtower publications, you have zero counseling skills, and no medical training.
a recently bereaved sister approaches you in tears and tells you she just wants to die.. what do you do?.
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Island Man
d) You ask her to show you her aquarium.
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Do Jehovah's Witnesses view the governing body differently since seeing them on the TV?
by jambon1 ini think this may be a bigger issue for the society than we realise.. when you consider that witnesses have now had well over a year of regularly seeing their 'channel to god' with their own eyes, what do you think they're thinking?.
i'm going to put this as respectfully as i can; these men are clearly a bunch of utter clowns who are laughably inadequate to present a tv show, but also, they are now ridiculously discredited due to the absolute shite that they've spoken in these laughable productions.. consider things from a jw's perspective; tony morris, stephen lett & geoffrey jackson are 'the channel' that makes their religion 'special'.
these men are the channel god is using to lead his people in the modern day.
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Island Man
I think the increased appearance of the GB on TV has served to separate the more rational, level-headed JWs from the uber-brainwashed zealots. The former have begun to take the GB less seriously. The latter have begun to idolize the GB and the organization, even more.
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Moving to Warwick Video incl. Morning Worship
by Listener ina new video is up about the commencement of moving to warwick.shawn bartlett tells the viewers that jehovah has said, through the governing body, ‘it’s time to move out of brooklyn.
‘ then helper robert lucciona says ‘ the governing body, these brothers, as soon as they see god’s direction, they just move, it doesn’t matter if it is long held, cherished ideas, this is the way it has to be done, as soon as they see jehovahs direction.
he just kept nudging imperfect humans, he knew where he wanted us and then we end up where we are supposed to be.
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Island Man
Shawn Bartlett tells the viewers that Jehovah has said, through the Governing Body, ‘it’s time to move out of Brooklyn.
“‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak ... that prophet must die." - Deuteronomy 18:20
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Biblical Scholar Claims The Story Of Jesus Christ Was A HOAX Designed To Control The People
by anointed1 inhere is something i found interesting:.
biblical scholar claims the story of jesus christ was a hoax designed to control the people.
http://simplecapacity.com/2016/10/biblical-scholar-claims-story-jesus-christ-hoax-designed-control-people/.
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Island Man
Isn't that the truth about many religious stories? The details of Atwill's claims may be wrong, but the I believe the Jesus story as written in the bible, is definitely a myth.
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JW Carts Cause Thousands to Start Studying!!!
by Drifting Away ini would love to know the stats of how many hours were spent, standing by a cart, or sitting at a local town fair with jw table tent set up, compared to the number of bible studies started that led to baptism since the inception of the carts.
anyone have any idea?
if i had to guess i would say thousands of hours pent standing by a cart, and maybe less then 5 that actually got baptized.
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Island Man
JW Carts Cause Thousands to Start Studying!!!
Yeah, and dozens will get baptized. lol.
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Who has the authority to decern what the bible really teaches?
by TTWSYF inso i ask because of all the books, mags and testimonies that the wts promotes.
not only the wts, but many other christians attempt to speak about the bible with authority.
how do we measure who is an authority if we don't know that much?.
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Island Man
Who has the authority to [discern] what the bible really teaches?
Wrong question. With that kind of thinking, you're setting yourself up to be deceived and manipulated by unscrupulous religious leaders who will always try to convince others that the Bible does not mean what it says but means what the religious leaders say it means. The correct question is...
Who has the responsibility to discern what the bible really teaches?
The answer? You the reader. See Mark 13:14 parentheses, Revelation 1:3 and 2 Timothy 3:15-17.
Think about this: If the Beroeans did not have the authority to discern what the bible really teaches, then what legitimate basis could they have had to compare Paul's teachings against the bible to judge whether or not he was teaching correctly? They would have been acting presumptuously. But the Bible said they were noble-minded.
If Christians do not have authority to discern for themselves what the bible says but must look to some hierarchical authority whose interpretations they are beholden to accept without question, then they are no longer trusting in God but in that human authority. They would be followers of the teachings of men instead of followers of what the Bible says. They would be making themselves vulnerable to being deceived and manipulated by those who twist the scriptures to serve their own interests.
Consider this too: how can any person know which church is teaching the truth and which is teaching error? Compare their teachings with the bible, you say? But how are you to do this if you don't have the authority to discern what the bible is really saying, in the first place? In other words if individuals don't have the authority to discern what the bible says then they don't have any means of testing any church's teachings in light of the scriptures since they have no authority to discern the scriptures. So you're proposing a situation where Christianity has to be based on faith in men's teachings and interpretations as being correct without having the authority to objectively determine if they're correct. Does that strike you as being a logically and ethically tenable position?
According to JWs, how did God make known to the first century Jews that he had chosen the apostles and formed a new Christian congregation as the approved way of worship? They say he empowered the apostles to perform miracles that served as indisputable proof of divine backing. Now look at the mess that exists today with 30,000+ conflicting denominations all professing to be true but teaching conflicting doctrines and using scripture to back them up. Is it reasonable to think that the God who provided 1st century Jews with miracle-working apostles, expects people today to wade through the mess on their own without him ever empowering his true earthly representatives to make themselves unmistakably known through some miracle? Is that reasonable. Search the scriptures and you'd see he always gave his representatives miraculous credentials to prove their divine appointment. Where's the miraculous credentials by the Watchtower or any other group? It's nowhere to be found.
There is obviously no God or none of the groups today are his special appointed channel.
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Hypothetical: If WTS Reformed...?
by Cold Steel inas i said in the subject line, this is purely hypothetical.
what do you think would happen if the wtbts leaders decided to reboot some of the organization's more controversial practices.
not that they would deny their claims to be jehovah's earthly representatives, nor the key elements of their eschatology; but in administrative outlooks.
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Island Man
Such changes would undoubtedly increase interest and activity in the Society. In the short run, they will see a dip in membership as all those who were trapped by the shunning policy would now seize the opportunity to make an official exit. Some of the more judgmental, hardcore JWs who love shunning and the martyrdom that comes with refusing blood, would also take their exit. But in the long run, more non-JWs would decide to become JWs when they find out that they won't have to endanger their life by refusing blood, if they become a JW. The religion will become more mainstream.